laureenthemean: I also find myself doubting the existence of god
laureenthemean: I now consider myself agnostic
TIMe ToIM TIM: i see
TIMe ToIM TIM: for me..
TIMe ToIM TIM: it’s unfathomable that God exits
TIMe ToIM TIM: exists
TIMe ToIM TIM: what i question
TIMe ToIM TIM: is.. does he care about my life
laureenthemean: the founding fathers believed that he existed, but didn’t necessarily control our everyday lives
laureenthemean: I don’t know
TIMe ToIM TIM: i mean.. doesn’t exist
laureenthemean: I guess I haven’t seen any proof
TIMe ToIM TIM: i think you got that
TIMe ToIM TIM: i think..
TIMe ToIM TIM: there’s too much harmony in the world for there not to be a god
laureenthemean: is there?
laureenthemean: I don’t know
laureenthemean: some of the nicest people I know are atheist
TIMe ToIM TIM: in chaos there’s order
laureenthemean: some of the most horrible people I know are Christians
TIMe ToIM TIM: that means nothing
TIMe ToIM TIM: being christian doesn’t mean you’re a nice person
laureenthemean: no, but it should
laureenthemean: I don’t see that God has made a difference in their lives
TIMe ToIM TIM: being atheist doesn’t mean you’d be selfish
TIMe ToIM TIM: it’s not connected
TIMe ToIM TIM: well.. not directly
laureenthemean: alright, maybe not the atheist thing
laureenthemean: but I don’t see a difference between Christians and non
laureenthemean: shouldn’t there be?
TIMe ToIM TIM: the difference, i believe, is in the person
laureenthemean: what do you mean?
TIMe ToIM TIM: hmm..
TIMe ToIM TIM: i can say that i’m a surfer
TIMe ToIM TIM: i can buy an expensive board
TIMe ToIM TIM: put a rack on my car
TIMe ToIM TIM: buy a wetsuit
TIMe ToIM TIM: know where to surf
TIMe ToIM TIM: but…
TIMe ToIM TIM: until i get in the water
TIMe ToIM TIM: and paddle
TIMe ToIM TIM: and.. fight through the current
TIMe ToIM TIM: and… sit there
TIMe ToIM TIM: and wait
laureenthemean: I don’t quite follow your analogy
TIMe ToIM TIM: feel the wave
laureenthemean: so you think
TIMe ToIM TIM: catch it
TIMe ToIM TIM: .. that’s when i’m a surfer
laureenthemean: people aren’t “true christians” until they try to change?
TIMe ToIM TIM: yes
laureenthemean: they dont’ merely have to believe and try?
laureenthemean: I think
TIMe ToIM TIM: umm..
laureenthemean: it’s in the person’s personality
TIMe ToIM TIM: if you believe and try.. you’d try to change
laureenthemean: and it doesn’t matter whether or not they believe in god
TIMe ToIM TIM: for me.. i see a lot of people with surfboards
laureenthemean: some people were born into the right family, raised the right way, with morals and ethics, and the tendency to follow them
TIMe ToIM TIM: but… not a lot of surfers in christianity
TIMe ToIM TIM: i think you’re confusing morality with christianity
laureenthemean: being a good person
laureenthemean: what is christianity, then?
TIMe ToIM TIM: following Christ
laureenthemean: why aren’t christians good people?
TIMe ToIM TIM: christians should be good people
TIMe ToIM TIM: doesn’t mean.. christians are good people
laureenthemean: I know that
laureenthemean: but why?
laureenthemean: why aren’t they?
laureenthemean: shouldn’t they be?
TIMe ToIM TIM: because… like i said.. they don’t surf
laureenthemean: don’t they have the motivation?
laureenthemean: but don’t you think that it’s just harder for some people than others?
TIMe ToIM TIM: most definitely
TIMe ToIM TIM: most definitely
laureenthemean: if you grew up in an abusive household
laureenthemean: or something
TIMe ToIM TIM: for sure
laureenthemean: then what difference does it make?
TIMe ToIM TIM: what do mean?
laureenthemean: what is the point in believe in God
laureenthemean: believing
laureenthemean: if it doesn’t change you
TIMe ToIM TIM: but it should
laureenthemean: but it doesn’t
TIMe ToIM TIM: no, it does
TIMe ToIM TIM: if you truly believe
TIMe ToIM TIM: honestly
laureenthemean: do you honestly think that you do certain things because of your belief?
TIMe ToIM TIM: being christian
TIMe ToIM TIM: doesn’t make life easier for an individual persay
TIMe ToIM TIM: but… knowing that there’s hope
TIMe ToIM TIM: that there’s something better
TIMe ToIM TIM: that’s hwo it makes things easier
laureenthemean: you don’t have to be christian to believe that
TIMe ToIM TIM: yah, you do
TIMe ToIM TIM: well.. you have to believe in a God
laureenthemean: some people try to be good people in the hopes that they will make the world a better place, or that they will be happier in doing so
laureenthemean: it has nothing to do with god
TIMe ToIM TIM: yah
TIMe ToIM TIM: and?
laureenthemean: so you don’t have to believe
laureenthemean: to change
laureenthemean: I mean, you don’t have to believe in a higher power
TIMe ToIM TIM: i’m not arguing that
laureenthemean: you said you have to be christian to believe there’s “something better”
laureenthemean: I’m not entirely sure what you meant, or what your point was
TIMe ToIM TIM: hmm..
TIMe ToIM TIM: i never said… you have to be christian to believe there’s something better
TIMe ToIM TIM: i said.. i believe in christianity because i think there’s something better
laureenthemean: ah
laureenthemean: but what is the point in being a Christian?
TIMe ToIM TIM: hope
laureenthemean: you dont’ have to be a Christian for that
TIMe ToIM TIM: yes, we went over this
laureenthemean: I mean, I guess one would think that someone might become a Christian because he or she is so moved by what God supposedly does for us
TIMe ToIM TIM: every day i don’t die, i thank God
laureenthemean: and so you might want to be more like him in appreciation
laureenthemean: not everyone does
TIMe ToIM TIM: i understand that
laureenthemean: not everything is thankful for their life, and some people curse God for it
laureenthemean: everyone
TIMe ToIM TIM: and i’m sure their views on christianity aren’t very solid
laureenthemean: as far as I know, I haven’t seen anyone change because of Christianity
laureenthemean: I don’t see the difference He makes in anyone’s life
TIMe ToIM TIM: hmm..
TIMe ToIM TIM: i just turned on my porch light
laureenthemean: I think everyone at church is a hypocrite, and I’m tired of being one of them
TIMe ToIM TIM: did you see it?
laureenthemean: I’m not at home
TIMe ToIM TIM: but i just turned it on
laureenthemean: it’s not the same
laureenthemean: other people can see it
TIMe ToIM TIM: but it’s on nonetheless
laureenthemean: so?
laureenthemean: I have no reason to believe you
laureenthemean: in fact, I don’t
TIMe ToIM TIM: that’s fine
TIMe ToIM TIM: you don’t have to believe me
TIMe ToIM TIM: but… my porch light is on
laureenthemean: but it would be stupid of me to blindly believe you without any proof
TIMe ToIM TIM: it’s just a porch light
laureenthemean: so I should believe you because it’s insignificant?
TIMe ToIM TIM: you don’t have to believe me
TIMe ToIM TIM: but.. it’s on
laureenthemean: okay…
TIMe ToIM TIM: i don’t even need to convince you
laureenthemean: if it doesn’t matter, then who cares whether it’s on or not
TIMe ToIM TIM: well… it might matter to me
laureenthemean: but if it doesn’t affect me, then why should I care
TIMe ToIM TIM: you don’t have to care
laureenthemean: should you try to get me to care?
TIMe ToIM TIM: no?
laureenthemean: are you trying to make an analogy here?
laureenthemean: because it’s a bad one
TIMe ToIM TIM: i’m just saying.. my porch
light is on
laureenthemean: oh
laureenthemean: okay then
TIMe ToIM TIM: there’s people out there being changed because of God
laureenthemean: I haven’t seen it
TIMe ToIM TIM: that’s possible
laureenthemean: I don’t know how christians expect others to become christians
laureenthemean: I’m trying to be open-minded about this
laureenthemean: but I don’t see any compelling reason to believe in God
TIMe ToIM TIM: i can’t give yo ua reason to believe
TIMe ToIM TIM: i can tell you why i do
TIMe ToIM TIM: but… that’s no reason for you to
laureenthemean: why do you believe?
TIMe ToIM TIM: though, i do hope someday you do
laureenthemean: how do you know he exists?
TIMe ToIM TIM: it’s a long story